|
|
Covina.com's General Message Board.
This Message Board is for general information about Covina, CA.
If you see inappropriate language or messages, please click on the alert icon below.
|
Save Civic Park
If you haven't had a chance to read the draft Town Center Specific Plan, it's available at:
http://www.ci.covina.ca.us/calendar/downtown/Draft/town-center-draft.pdf
There's a lot to read there, and some of it is good stuff.
The plan to destroy Civic Park is a bad idea though, and we need to make this very clear to the powers that be.
It's a .pdf document, so you can search on Civic Park and Civic Center Park for the relevant passages.
Our park is threatened and we can save it if we act now.
Healthy mature trees like these take more than a lifetime to grow and make shade. Civic Park is the jewel of our treasured Historic Downtown. There are precious few cities left in the valley that have one to preserve and profit from. Most cities would give their eye teeth to get them back.
This is the time to call and write the Planning Department and tell them you want Civic Park saved, right where it is, correctly zoned as a Park, protected from development, and kept as public property for your descendants. Tell them what kind of improvements you would prioritize for that park, so that making it even better and more useful can become part of the Town Center Specific Plan.
The Parks Master Plan lists a bunch of good ideas for Civic Park.
These include:
more curb ramps and walkways for greater accessibility
more public benches and picnic tables and other picnic facilities
more signage
aesthetic improvements??
a drinking fountain
irrigation system upgrades
landscape additions and upgrades
lighting for night use
I think re-roofing the picnic gazebo would be great! (it needs it)
What else can you think of?
Posted by Duff  a 37 year old from covina on 07/28/04
Responses: (1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8) (9) (10) (11) (12) (13) (14) (15) (16) (17) (18) (19) (20) (21) (22) (23) (24) (25) (26) (27) (28) (29) (30) (31) (32) (33) (34) (35) (36) (37) (38) (39) (40) (41) (42) (43) (44) (45)
(46) (47) (48) (49) (50) (51) (52) (53) (54) (55) (56) (57) (58) (59) Post Reply 
|
- Re: Save Civic Park
I can almost imagine putting in sort of a small flat cement raised stage-like area maybe near the top of the park where the grass and P.D. parking lot meet. It could be used for the children's events the Library puts on in the park and entertainment during Farmer's Market and the annual Saturday Festivals. (Which would free up the Gazeebo for public use when bands play during Farmer's Market.) And they could maybe put a curved or angled wall (for acoustics?) and have it say "COVINA CIVIC PARK"
And of course, I love the rest of Duff's ideas. Especially more signage!
...most of my friends don't even know what I'm talking about when I say "Civic park". I always have to clarify "yaknow, the big chunk of grass infront of the police station".
Posted by Ms Becker a 16 year old from Covina on 08/04/04
Responses: (0) (1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) Reply (to this)(main)
|
- Re: Save Civic Park
Excellent suggestions, Ms. Becker. I agree with all of them, and hope that those who make propositions for change and/or decisions about those propositions have read your posting. I missed the original posting, "Save Civic Park," but yours definitely caught my attention, since I don't want to lose Civic Center Park (its correct name, I believe).
Posted by Paulinski a 42 year old from Covina on 10/12/04
Responses: (0) (1) (2) (3) Reply (to this)(main)
|
- Re: Save Civic Park
I grew up in Covina. We'd go swim at the plunge (pool) on Saturdays. We'd play baseball or other games at the park.
I even was able to throw a boomerang in the park.
Don't cut down the trees or destroy the park.
What can I do to help save the park?
Thanks.
Ken
Posted by Ksymons a 50 year old on 01/07/05
Responses: (0) (1) (2) Reply (to this)(main)
|
- Re: Save Civic Park
I believe you're referring to Covina Park, not Civic Park. Civic Park is the smaller one in front of the Police and Fire stations. There are no plans to destroy Covina Park.
Posted by TLH from Covina on 01/08/05
Responses: (0) Reply (to this)(main)
|
- Re: Save Civic Park
Hi Ken,
Glad you asked!
Write your City Council members and come speak at a council meeting about it.
Also, vote in the coming March 8th City Election for candidates who believe in protecting public land.
Those are three things you can do.
The original thread was indeed about Civic Park on Citrus, but you're right to be concerned.
It has come to light that not one of Covina's parks (including Covina Park) enjoy any protection whatsoever from private development.
This is because of the way they are zoned.
The zoning of our parks deliberately leaves the door open for various types of development.
As an example, Charter Oak Park, which Covina's City Council has just annexed from the county, is re-zoned (as a condition of that
annexation) to R-1 7500, which is single family residential development. There are long-term plans being developed to build on that site.
Hard to fathom as that is, the rest of our parks are zoned for single family residential development too, with the exception of Covina Park and Civic Park.
Covina Park was somewhat murkily rezoned in the Town Center Specific Plan (TCSP), from R-1 7500 to TCSP-6 Parks & Open Space.
Murky, because there is no TCSP-6 zone defined in either the General Plan or the Municipal Code, so there is no real legal protection there either.
Civic Park was even less clearly defined in the TCSP, re-described from TCC Town Center Commercial, to TCSP-5 Town Center Commercial Retail Core. Presumably this will make it more palatable to sell off the park for private development.
City Management and certain parties with vested interests in the project are continuing to make the ridiculous assertions that Civic Park is not a park or that it is a lousy park. They also claim repeatedly that no plans have been submitted to develop the site.
These fall in the category of BIG LIES. Do not fall for this rhetoric, because that's all it is. Those who keep spouting it are creating diversions to draw your attention away from the eminent squandering of our public lands.
Plans are well underway on that site, architectural drawings have been approved in concept, and a developer is in exclusive negotiations to build there. This is on the Public Record for those who care to dig for it.
It should be said here that Covina is desperately short of the National Standard for parks and open space given the growing population we support.
We need to take care of and enhance the parks we have, not tear them down and promise to replace them later somewhere else.
We need more parks, not less parks.
Losing any park space will place additional pressure on every other park.
People have to play somewhere, and they will.
Your favorite park will become more crowded and less enjoyable.
You can do something to change this ominous direction now.
It’s not too late until the day they knock down the trees.
We need a clearly defined Parks & Open Space Zone in our Municipal Code and General Plan, we need all of the Parks rezoned that way, and we need politicians and city management who are determined to get that job done.
Please do step forward and take a stand, and encourage your friends and neighbors to do so too.
Posted by Duff a 38 year old on 01/08/05
Responses: (0) Reply (to this)(main)
|
- Re: Save Civic Park
You pretty much hit the nail on the head with "yaknow, the big chunck of grass in front of the police station. That is all it is, no play equipment,1 picnic table,and NO PARKING! It sits next to one of the busiest street in Covina.This isn't a park, it's an eyesore! someone even suggested saving Civic Park because the Police like to be able to see Citrus Ave from the Police department.That person hasn't been in the Police Department.
Posted by Collector a 53 year old on 01/08/05
Responses: (0) (1) Reply (to this)(main)
|
- Re: Save Civic Park
An update here, just to bring the conversation full circle.
A robust array of comments have been made on this topic
in the thread labeled "Council Meeting 2/15" .
Those who are interested can click on that topic in the General Message Board list,
for further reading.
Finally, a bunch of us silly park-lovin' folks will gather at Civic Park
this Saturday and Sunday, both days, from 10am-12pm, rain or shine.
Civic Park is the lovely little scrap of a park at the center of old town Covina,
in front of the police station, at the corner of San Bernardino & Citrus
Please join us if you've got either morning free.
It's a great opportunity to network with your neighbors
and since the press will likely attend,
it's a chance to raise awareness across the valley
that our parks are on the budget chopping block.
If you care about your local park
(or any other city issue that means something to you),
make sure your elected officials understand that you do,
before they make decisions that can't be reversed.
We're going to enjoy and USE that park this weekend,
and continue to organize, inform, and mobilize citizens
so that Covina's City Council can get the message
that the people want to keep their park.
See you in Civic Park.
Posted by Duff a 38 year old from Covina on 03/04/05
http://www.electduff.org
Responses: (0) (1) Reply (to this)(main)
|
- Re: Save Civic Park
That should be fun.the most activity the park has seen in months! Are you going to kick out the homeless guy, or invite hiim to your party??
Posted by Collector a 53 year old from Covina on 03/04/05
Responses: (0) Reply (to this)(main)
|
- Re: Save Civic Park
I saw the action in the park! homeless guy included
(Does anyone out there speak spannish and would be willing to check it out?).
At least somebody is gettin out there.
Every day the trees on that park soak up a lot of the car exauhst.
Even when we're not using it, we're using it.
How about next week or next year or....
Posted by Spl a 47 year old on 03/05/05
Responses: (0) (1) Reply (to this)(main)
|
- Re: Save Civic Park
I drove by there, too, around 11:15 a.m. and saw 3 or 4 people with signs telling people to honk (I didn't hear any honks) and a man out in the street (San Bernardino Rd.) trying to hand out flyers to cars waiting at the light, plus the homeless man. Not exactly a huge crowd. When I returned from my errands around 2:00, everyone was gone except for the homeless man at the table under the shelter. Otherwise, not a soul was using the park. (I don't think trees soaking up exhaust constitutes "use" in the way the organizers hoped it would be used.)
Posted by TLH from Covina on 03/05/05
Responses: (0) Reply (to this)(main)
|
- Re: Save Civic Park
I saw the action in the park! homeless guy included
(Does anyone out there speak spannish and would be willing to check it out?).
At least somebody is gettin out there.
Every day the trees on that park soak up a lot of the car exauhst.
Even when we're not using it, we're using it.
How about next week or next year or....
Posted by Spl a 47 year old on 03/06/05
Responses: (0) (1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8) (9) (10) (11) (12) (13) (14) (15) (16) Reply (to this)(main)
|
- Re: Save Civic Park
What makes you think he speaks Spanish? Why would he want to leave? He has shelter,a place to sit a watch the traffic go by. He is being fed by the people that work at Clippinger Ford,what more could the guy want? Of course this doesn't make it very inviting for people to use the park, or picnic tables. I don't think the "save the park" people invited him to hand out flyers or join the party.
Posted by George a 54 year old from George@covina.com on 03/07/05
Responses: (0) (1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8) (9) (10) (11) (12) (13) (14) (15) Reply (to this)(main)
|
- Re: Save Civic Park
 "What makes you think he speaks Spanish?"
Answer: Because he does speak Spanish, I was there yesterday and talked to him(I speak Spanish). He is a very quite person.
Q: "I don't think the "save the park" people invited him to hand out flyers or join the party."
A: In matter of fact I asked him if he needed anything from us and he send no, after I asked him if he will like to help us and he said not thank you, he just wants to sit there. He seems like a very nice guy.
"He is being fed by the people that work at Clippinger Ford,"
Oh, yes he is. When I spoke with him he had a huge tray of sandwiches...
www.Marquez4Covina.com
Posted by JAM a 21 year old from Covina on 03/07/05
Responses: (0) (1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8) (9) (10) (11) (12) (13) (14) Reply (to this)(main)
|
- Re: Save Civic Park
JAM, What is your position on this person? You sound as if you condone him living in the park.Should he be allowed to take up all of the tables under the gazebo and stay there all day,every day? That certainly doesn't make for a very inviting situation for others to have a picnic or use the park.
Posted by George a 54 year old from George@covina.com on 03/07/05
Responses: (0) (1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8) (9) (10) (11) (12) (13) Reply (to this)(main)
|
- Re: Save Civic Park
Where the heck did you get that idea from? I asked if he needed anything, and he wanted to help us "Save the Park". I believe we should come up with something to help these people out on the street, and don't condon anyone? I like how you like to twist my words George aka Collector. Like I mentioned earlier, he was a very quite person and didn't really want anything from me or any of us. There needs to be something done for people like him, when I spoke to him he seemed to me as a nice person. I'm actual researching right now to see what I can do.
www.Marquez4Covina.com
Posted by JAM a 21 year old from Covina on 03/07/05
Responses: (0) Reply (to this)(main)
|
- Re: Save Civic Park
The "organizers", whatever that means, couldn't get it together in all these years
to put accessible bathrooms or a drinking fountain in Civic Park,
so I'm not turning there for help figuring out what parks are for.
The homeless man's name is Mario and he needs help.
Maybe you could help him?
We fed him.
For most of the time that we were there Sunday,
three women and a baby in a stroller were picnicking under the gazebo.
They didn’t seem to be too disturbed by Mario.
Neither did the party of 8 young folks
gathered at the only other picnic table in the park, across from La Tazza.
It was a very fine weekend
and I think we all feel EMPOWERED
by the strong support we received from the community for this important cause.
Moving forward, I am one of the organizers of the Save Our Parks movement,
and I'd call pollution and stormwater management two of the more important and valuable passive uses of parks.
Then you have your shade, CO2 absorption, temperature control, crime reduction,
lowering of domestic violence, and on and on.
Silly stuff like that.
You missed a LOT of honking!
I’m pretty sure we were able to direct some traffic down Citrus to go shopping too!
We were there from 10-1:30 Saturday and from 10-2 Sunday
longer than we had planned to stay both days.
We stayed late because the support was definitely there.
The park turnout was dedicated and enthusiastic.
In all, about 30 people took up signs over the two days.
They came and went...some of us stayed the whole time.
Lots of pedestrians and drivers were very interested in the handouts.
They stopped, they stayed, and we talked.
We gathered dozens more signatures for the ballot drive.
It was pretty darn cool.
The kind of thing that makes a person feel really alive.
We will be back again next weekend
and for as many weekends as it takes to get the word out and move the discussion forward.
Posted by Duff a 38 year old from Covina on 03/07/05
www.electduff.org
Responses: (0) (1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8) (9) (10) (11) Reply (to this)(main)
|
- Re: Save Civic Park
Maybe the "organizers" didn't put in bathrooms or a drinking fountain because it was considered a "redevelopment" area all along.
In talking to Chief Raney, about the homeless man, he says that they have offered him assistance, through various programs,but he doesn't want anything to do with them.The Chief believes that the more you feed him, the longer he will stay.
I don't know about the 3 woman and the baby, but when I went by twice, he was there by himself and had all of the tables littered with his stuff.He seems to know his rights and refuses to leave the area.This certainly won't attract many park users.
Posted by George a 54 year old from Covina.com on 03/07/05
Responses: (0) (1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8) (9) (10) Reply (to this)(main)
|
- Re: Save Civic Park
"The Chief believes that the more you feed him, the longer he will stay."
What does it say about someone who refers to another human being as if he were a stray animal? Have we lost all compassion for human beings? Does our society only value humans who choose to live within fictional self-imposed norms? I have never met this man, though I see him on a regular basis: he used to hang out at Covina Park. I know this because I saw him there on many occasions when I used that park: he certainly never discouraged me from using our community property. What is the problem with him staying at the park? Is he commiting crimes? Does he bother people? Is he stealing from local businesses or homes? Is he siphoning our tax dollars? If an individual wishes to give a handout to help a fellow human in need, is he/she wrong? You say that Chief Raney has offered him assistance, what kind of assistance? Not everyone in this world is motivated by the the Protestant Work Ethic. As long as he does not infringe on anyone's pursuit of hapiness, I say let him be.
"He seems to know his rights..."
More power to him!
George, you went by the park TWICE in one day! I don't know if you were driving or walking, but, either way, I am assuming you spent no more than five minutes by Civic Park. Five minutes of a twenty-four day is not a good representative sample of the day's activities at Civic Park.
I know I don't post here often, but the comment about this man enraged me. He is not an animal, he is a human.
Posted by Me from Covina on 03/07/05
Responses: (0) (1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8) (9) Reply (to this)(main)
|
- Re: Save Civic Park
So, it is your belief that there is no problem with him taking up residency on this property? What if other homeless people see that this works well, so they join him.How would you handle the problem if there were 20 homeless people living in the park? Where would they find restroom facilities? I did not question the Chief about the assistance offered, but I know there are programs in the area to help them with shelter, food and clothing.
I agree that going by the park twice a day is not a good representative sample,of what happens there, but I do pass there several times a day, at different times of day.And I have had a business next to the park for 8 years,watching it daily, so I do believe that I know what happens there most of the time.
Posted by Collector a 54 year old on 03/07/05
Responses: (0) (1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) Reply (to this)(main)
|
- Re: Save Civic Park
If twenty law-abiding, but freewheeling citizens
decided to move into the gazebo at Civic Park during the hours it was open,
I’d say they were using the park, like anybody else.
It’s an interesting question.
What reaction would you folks have to that possiblity?
How would you be prepared to handle their presence?
Mario’s visibility should tip us all off
that there are many folks who are not nearly so well-off as are we.
In fact, the vast majority of people on the planet live in abject poverty.
Look it up.
Covinans ought to take care of each other.
That’s the bottom line.
Coming downtown, as I do often,
one drawback I struggle to overlook,
is the narrow-minded minority in our community.
There are all sorts of people here.
We host humanity’s full spectrum of combinations
of incomes, languages, political inclinations, skin tones, beliefs,
hygiene preferences, ethics, genders, ages, and national origins, etc.
Some of each more populous than others.
Some individuals can seem more difficult to accept than others.
I’m not afraid of Mario.
He doesn’t bother me a bit.
I said earlier that he needs help,
But I’d like to respectfully retract that statement.
It was an arrogant and erroneous assumption with no basis in fact.
He doesn’t want help, and it’s not my business to determine what he needs.
From what I’ve seen, Mario doesn't seem to disturb other park users.
On the contrary, he keeps to himself and prefers to be left alone, though not rudely.
I’ve not seen his possessions spread out on any other table
than the one he happens to be sitting at.
At least he's relatively safe there.
It should be said here that he doesn’t live in the park,
though I don’t know just where he sleeps.
He spends his days there and clears out when the park is closed.
Civic Park opens at 5am and closes at 10 pm.
I suppose he uses the porta-potties like anyone else, as needed.
I am not aware of any time limit restrictions for sitting in or using public parks.
What discourages, scares, or threatens some people
doesn’t define other people’s rights.
Laws define our rights.
Being aware of his rights, as he seems to be, Mario chooses to stay in the park.
I truly hope that none of us ever find ourselves
left only with that choice.
George, you mentioned what Chief Raney actually said.
Was the part about what he believes also a quote, or no?
It might be interesting to explore further with the Chief just what he believes,
but I do know this:
He and his staff are responsible for investigating crime.
I have developed a comfortable level of confidence
that they take that responsibility seriously.
As far as I know, Mario has committed no crime.
Do any of you say otherwise?
Posted by Duff a 38 year old from Covina on 03/08/05
www.electduff.org
Responses: (0) Reply (to this)(main)
|
- Re: Save Civic Park
Eight years is a very short time.
Covina has a long history of strong feelings
about the value of public lands.
This whole discussion
goes to the very heart of community life and good citizenship.
George, TLH, and all the rest of the bulldozer gang,
I warmly invite you to come on down some Sunday
to the Firehouse-Jail Museum behind City Hall
and get connected with this community’s roots.
The history of these lands goes back much further,
but from the earliest beginnings of Covina proper,
the block there at the main southeast corner that we call Civic Park,
from San Bernardino Road to School Street,
and from Citrus Avenue to Second Avenue,
has been public land.
That is the heart of Covina's heritage
and Civic Park is among the commons to which we are ALL entitled, Mario-inclusive.
Civic Park is so aptly named...I love that little park.
Whichever "organizers" you reference,
they were mistaken in their considering.
In a moment, I’m sharing a thread entitled “Covina’s Roots”
in hopes that you are not yet so jaded
that you cannot be inspired to recognize and celebrate
Covina’s blossoming preservation movement.
Part I, The Early Years,
was written and donated to the Covina Valley Historical Society
as a gift for the inaugural launch of their new website at
www.covinahistory.org
Until the ribbon-cutting on that project,
folks can check out their ongoing work at
www.firehousejailmuseum.tripod.com/covinamuseum
Part II, The Later Years Until Today
will be finished and published shortly.
The fact is that returning economic vitality to downtown
will MIGHTILY benefit both of your downtown businesses
and also both of mine.
On this point I think we both agree:
that would be good for each of us personally and good for the community.
What we don’t seem to see eye to eye on
is the best course of action to get there.
Maybe we can raise the conversation a little
and try to find some other things to agree on.
We could find ourselves moving forward together
in a good new direction, perhaps as yet unarticulated.
Sure, Covina park is bigger, older, better equipped,
but it serves a different market too.
I know the Adams' Park community surrounding Covina park
recognizes that if we lose a park,
crowding and other pressures on the remaining parks will increase.
Citywide, most users of the rest of our Parks System recognize that too.
It's simple math.
Civic Park is OUR neighborhood park, and we want to keep it.
We don't want a new park. We like the park we have
Plans to redevelop the downtown area should radiate
from the existing park as the center of social activity,
and should reflect a clear understanding of and appreciation for
the value of our architectural and cultural history.
Posted by Duff a 38 year old from Covina on 03/10/05
Save Civic Park
Responses: (0) (1) (2) (3) (4) (5) Reply (to this)(main)
|
- Re: Save Civic Park
Woops,
the thread referred to is entitled "History of Covina".
Supportable corrections of fact, if any, are welcomed.
Posted by Duff a 38 year old from Covina on 03/10/05
Covina Valley Historical Society
Responses: (0) Reply (main)
|
- Re: Save Civic Park
I'm not part of a bulldozer gang. Just trying to stay open minded about all the options and what would be best both aesthetically and economically for Covina. I would never agree to the idea of building on Civic Center Park without knowing it would have to be replaced/relocated, whatever you want to call it, by the developers. As I said before, I've heard that some of the large trees could most likely be preserved and incorporated into the landscape of any development that might take place on the current park, if the park were to be relocated. I'm just willing to look at all the options before closing the door to something that could benefit the economy and bring in more revenue which is what is needed to keep this city as nice as it is. As for the city's heritage, I have been to the museum and love it. I was born and raised here, as were my father and my children, so I'm well aware of my Covina heritage.
By the way, I admire your enthusiasm and efforts to keep Covina a nice place to live and I appreciate that you were willing to give your time to running for city council. I guess I'm just more willing to look at all the options on this particular issue.
Posted by TLH from Covina on 03/10/05
Responses: (0) Reply (main)
|
- Re: Save Civic Park
BULLDOZER GANG.....so cute! So everyone that is open minded enough to look at all options is part of a BULLDOZER GANG?? All of the people from Civic Park are going to overcrowd Covina park?? I hope to god that there are 4 people, as open minded as TLH for every 1 that is wearing blinders,and doesn't want any change.
Wouldn't the Farmers market be a nice tie-in with the craft fair on Saturdey Mornings at the PARK?
Posted by George a 54 year old from Covina.com on 03/11/05
Responses: (0) Reply (main)
|
- Re: Save Civic Park
You don't expect those buildings to the south will be knocked down with a hammer, do you?
Nope, it'll be a bulldozer.
I should make one thing very clear, in case it's not by now.
It'd be a mistake to think of me as wearing set of blinders.
Think electron microscope.
Since the door is now open,
you may rest assured that I will be looking very closely at the options
and busily marketing alternatives.
I want to encourage both of you to REALLY keep your minds open;
study the details, as I will, with a fine toothed comb;
and be willing to consider the strong possiblility
of an even higher outcome than those presently being floated.
By the way,
we seem to have reached the depth limit
of the "Reply to This" function,
so that's why I'm replying to myself.
Posted by Duff a 38 year old from Covina on 03/11/05
duff.org
Responses: (0) Reply (main)
|
- Re: Save Civic Park
Minds that are open but not analytical
are liable to fall for anything that drifts in there.
The Farmer's Market brings a lot of people downtown on Friday nights.
Many of them stay and shop.
Would that potential be best exploited by moving the Market to Covina Park
or maybe by opening up the shops a little later on Fridays and creating more nightlife?
What's the cost to put restrooms in the park?
Let's see these clear costs of options side by side.
What about this:
Let's find a more industrial zone to relocate the welding school
and get something different on THAT lot.
(the school district is apparently game)
Suppose instead that,
• a hip new-retro commercial building (or a library?) wended south
across the welding school lot AND the northside Italia city parking lot,
situated optimally facing west, with a lit & planted brick walkway
oriented North-South, and
• the existing alley behind the shops on Citrus in that block was similarly
improved.
• and that whole block of shops facing Citrus between School & Italia
did seismic retrofitting where necessary and rear-façade upgrades
Standing in the park looking south on a Friday night,
we'd have two long views,
both of high architectural value and aesthetic depth,
down attractive walkways,
significantly upping the potential for a good strolling atmosphere
and hot commercial draw,
all the way through to the courtyard fountain
with our magnificently renovated City Hall as a backdrop.
Sitting on the edge of the fountain in the memorial courtyard, looking north,
a similarly appealing long view, including 3 great old houses,
with the park as a backdrop and the mountains behind.
We'd also have probably kept all the downtown merchants in business the whole time.
On a related note,different block, have you paused on Badillo to look north in that area?
There’s another strongly attractive view potential evident there.
The alley behind the playhouse runs all the way to Civic Park.
You can see it walking or driving in either direction on Badillo.
20 steps or so east you can see north across the block
to the beautifully framed front of our City Hall.
I am not against change.
Far from it.
Nor, with a few notable exceptions,
are most of the citizens who share my view.
I think you know that.
I live for and relish change.
It's waste and short-sightedness that I abhor.
Posted by Duff a 38 year old from Covina on 03/11/05
duff.org
Responses: (0) Reply (main)
|
- Re: Save Civic Park
Yes he has discouraged people from using this green space. I don't call this a Park, (Park n. a public area of land having facilities for recreation.) it's a green space. I have been downtown for over 17 years and have heard too many times from customers & others that they don't like going there because of the homeless men that hangout there. He is not the first, over the years we have had a number of men living out of this space. Many people don't stop downtown & shop because they see him & others wandering the streets downtown. It even makes my employees uneasy when they see some dirty man walking up to the business late at night.
No one wants to treat him like a stray animal. Many people have offered him assistance. He needs a place to stay that has restrooms & other facilities needed for someone to live. The Covina Downtown Assoc. spends a lot of time & money to clean up after him & others using the alleys, sidewalks & other places as his restroom. I know it's not the image I want for my downtown, a place where anyone can come & live. This is a place for people downtown to sit, relax & eat, not feel uneasy because of someone spreading everything they own all over the tables.
Posted by Old Timer on 03/08/05
Responses: (0) Reply (to this)(main)
|
- Re: Save Civic Park
The problem with the Friday night market is that it has turned into a swap meet with everything from China.It was SUPPOSED to be a Farnmers market, but he can't get enough farmers, and the merchandise booths pay more for him. Take a look as soon as it opens and count the booths selling swap meet items from China.There was a time when he wouldn't let product in unless it was handmade or unique. The market needs a change.
Posted by Collector a 54 year old on 03/11/05
Responses: (0) (1) (2) Reply (to this)(main)
|
- Re: Save Civic Park
Holy cow!
Something to agree with George on, without reservation!
I don't need to wait and count foreign goods.
I think you have identified one of the REAL problems here.
However, moving the Farmer's Market to Covina Park won't solve for that.
Also, that precinct squawks even more powerfully than ours.
Maybe we should talk to the organizers,
get some new vendors, and set some standards?
Do we need to talk to different organizers?
Who else is running a great farmers market gig locally?
This is the only one I frequent.
Do you folks visit any others?
Better lighting, bathrooms,
and accessibility might also help attract quality vendors
and could spur higher attendance.
Better bands wouldn’t hurt either.
Oh.
I don't mind merchandise per se,
but I would be more drawn to homespun, locally grown, high quality goods.
You've got some good goodies don't you George?
Why don't you do a booth this year?
What about the rest of the downtown merchants?
What about the Chamber of Commerce members?
Maybe we could bring it on down Citrus with outdoor displays?
Posted by Duff a 38 year old from Covina on 03/11/05
duff.org
Responses: (0) (1) Reply (to this)(main)
|
- Re: Save Civic Park
Moving the Farmers market to Covina Park on Saturday morning would incorporate the craft vendors and give more handmade product to the show and instantly make it a larger venue.
Harry is the person that makes the decisions on the market. I believe only Council has anything else to say.
If you want to see GOOD evening markets, go to Monrovia on Friday night,San Dimas on Wednesday night and if you want to see a GOOD farmers market, go to Diamond Bar on Saturday morning, at Grand Ave and Golden Springs Road.
Better lighting,better bathrooms etc are all good,but the #1 reason this market will not succeed, at this location, is that there is NO PLACE TO PARK! People going to the market generally end up on the wrong side of Citrus and that is dangerous! Covina Park has ample parking for any event,along with lighting, bathrooms and lots of playground equipment for kids.
The Friday night market is not conducive to "good shopping" in the downtown area, because it draws families..Sounds crazy huh! The downtown area is made up of small "boutique" shops, which are not set up for "families" to stroll through.The small downtown businesses are set up for singles and couples, not a family with 3-4 kids. Most of the restaurants are not exactly "family" restaurants for larger groups and Friday is their biggest night anyway.They can not compete with the prices charged by food vendors at the park.So,overall I believe that is why the merchants don't stay open and the restaurants don't try to compete with the market. Glendora found the same results and no longer has a "Thursday night market"
Posted by George a 54 year old from Covina.com on 03/12/05
Responses: (0) Reply (to this)(main)
|
- Re: Save Civic Park
If you stand at the monument at Civic Park and look
to the northwest, you will see concrete forms and rebar and maybe
a concrete pumper boom protruding over the buildings.
This would be the beginnings of our new parking structure.
It should provide some additional parking.
Posted by Spl a 47 year old from Covina on 03/12/05
Responses: (0) (1) Reply (to this)(main)
|
- Re: Save Civic Park
Which will be GREAT for MetroLink, but do you honestly think that people are going to walk 3 blocks and cross 2 major streets to go to the market??
Posted by Collector a 54 year old on 03/13/05
Responses: (0) Reply (to this)(main)
|
- Re: Save Civic Park
City council sure was touting the fact that people
using that parking garage would be more than happy
to walk PAST the park to go shopping downtown.
Of course, that was when they were
moving to approve the $9 mil parking garage project.
Posted by Spl a 47 year old from covina on 03/13/05
Responses: (0) (1) Reply (to this)(main)
|
- Re: Save Civic Park
That might be what the council was touting, but would YOU walk 4-5 blocks to shop downtown?? I don't believe that there will be any number of people that will.Maybe when the Clippinger and Davis lots are redeveloped, there might be enough reason, as they will be much closer.
Posted by Collector a 53 year old on 03/13/05
Responses: (0) Reply (to this)(main)
|
- Re: Save Civic Park
Maybe they'll be able to use the new hospital parking garage,
when it's done. I understand that it will be even closer.
Anyway, I think I'll walk down to Civic Park this afternoon.
It's only about 6 blocks and one busy street away from me.
I'd be doing way more of my shopping downtown (after visiting the park)
if more shops were open on the weekends, when I have time.
Posted by Spl a 47 year old from Covina on 03/13/05
Responses: (0) (1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8) (9) Reply (to this)(main)
|
- Re: Save Civic Park
We just can't get those merchants to work a 7 day week.....Enjoy the rain.
Posted by Collector a 54 year old on 03/13/05
Responses: (0) Reply (to this)(main)
|
- Re: Save Civic Park
I believe the park should stay. In this past election I voted for people who would save the park. I an very upset about what is going on right now I hope Duff, and Marquez will stay on top of things about saving OUR park, even though they were not elected. I hope this doesn't turn into another recall like that one lady said at the Council meeting 3-4 weeks ago.
Posted by Mister Brown a 40 year old from Covina on 03/14/05
Responses: (0) (1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) Reply (to this)(main)
|
- Re: Save Civic Park
Yes, we will be taking every opportunity
to raise community awareness about this important issue.
We have formed a working committee to move it further forward.
Keep an eye out for CUSP: Covinans United to Save our Parks.
Fortunately, California has an initiative process
which empowers citizens to pass the laws
that their representatives will not.
CUSP has a carefully considered first draft already.
We're now looking for a good attorney
who lives here and cares about Covina's future
to kick down some pro bono
and help us button up a good tight ordinance protecting Civic Park
and all of our parks with Parks Zoning.
We hold out some hope that the new council will come to its senses
about their drive to sell Civic Park.
Our faith is placed elsewhere, with the strength of the electorate.
We are jazzed that the majority of Covinans support keeping our parks.
We are confident that an honest initiative, ensuring that, will have wide support.
If you'd like to be part of making this happen, please get in touch.
Posted by Duff a 38 year old from CUSP: Covinans United to Save our Parks on 03/19/05
duff.org
Responses: (0) (1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) Reply (to this)(main)
|
- Re: Save Civic Park
"We hold out some hope that the new council will come to its senses
about their drive to sell Civic Park."
I have been following the council meetings on tv and I have not seen or heard evidence of any drive to sell Civic Park. All I have heard is that they want to keep their options open to at least consider proposals or other possibilities, and they have made it pretty clear that IF the park was sold, it would have to be replaced elsewhere in the downtown. Whether that is feasible is another issue, but you make it sound like they are hell bent on selling the park no matter what. I respect your right to your opinion, but some of us Covinans would like to have the option of hearing what the possibilities are without being considered part of a "bulldozer gang." I may very well find myself agreeing with you in the end, but I'd like the chance to hear both sides.
Posted by TLH from Covina on 03/19/05
Responses: (0) (1) (2) (3) (4) (5) Reply (to this)(main)
|
- Re: Save Civic Park
Unfortunately, when she gets on a mission, NOTHING will slow her down! I also have not heard of ANYBODY ready to outright sell the
so-called park.At least, not without replacing it with another,but Duff makes a better point if she has people believing that the city is ready to sell ALL parks in the area.That will draw more support, even if it as not true.
Posted by Collector a 54 year old on 03/19/05
Responses: (0) (1) Reply (to this)(main)
|
- Re: Save Civic Park
We DO have the chance to hear as many sides as we choose to recognize.
How's that being abridged?
Respectfully, you have been hearing what you want to hear.
How is “whether that is feasible” another issue?
It is THE issue.
By a similar token, I have not been hearing what I want to hear,
nor have many of your fellow citizens
who’ve been more actively participating in local civic affairs.
I deliberately used a flip reference
to shorthand a point of view that you may not share:
that of the park replacement lobby,
the demolition advocates,
and the developers.
If those aren’t your shoes...so be it.
I’ve no context within which to consider you part of anything,
beyond your comments here.
I don’t think we know each other
(or at least I don’t know who you are).
I have been following the council meetings
and the planning commission meetings in person.
I have been downloading, studying, and researching the relevant documents.
I have engaged at that level of intensity
for quite a while now.
You’ve been tuning in, you say, so you may know this.
I speak on the public record frequently.
I have been communicating directly with the parties involved;
both staff and elected officials.
I serve honorably on two council-appointed boards.
I understand where our city management has trained their focus, and why,
for lo these many years.
Look at all the options you like, but recognize these facts:
• No cost/benefit comparisons for various land use alternatives
have been presented or proposed.
• Most citizens who address council on the park,
speak FOR keeping it, and AGAINST replacing it.
• We do not have a Conservation Element in our General Plan,
though California law requires it.
• Our Parks Zoning was deleted from our Municipal Code.
• ALL of our city parks were rezoned for development,
call the city and ask if you believe this not to be true,
or simply check the zoning map book at the library.
There must be some noble and lofty reasons for all of this,
that are of great benefit to the public good,
but I can’t find any evidence to support that hypothesis.
Is there any? Can you provide some insight here?
Taken in total, the implications are, to many of us, insidious.
We mean to secure and protect
the intrinsically higher-value use for our commons.
That’s why we are taking the direct action guaranteed us as citizens.
Posted by Duff a 38 year old from CUSP: Covinans United to Save our Parks on 03/20/05
duff.org
Responses: (0) (1) (2) Reply (to this)(main)
|
- Re: Save Civic Park
Hey Duff, how about this CUSP organization?
As you know. I have also been a proponent
of keeping Civic Park and park zoning.
What can I do to help?
It seems as though our voices have yet to be heard.
I know of no one other than city staff, city council and
a couple of others (not to mention names) who think that this silly idea is a good one.
Anyway, I’m not much of a joiner but it seems
that concerned citizens have to pool their resources.
Tell us more!
*
Posted by Spl a 47 year old from which intrest and enthusiasm oozes on 03/20/05
Responses: (0) (1) Reply (to this)(main)
|
- Re: Save Civic Park
CUSP (Covinans United to Save our Parks)
is a growing association of park users and Park System advocates.
CUSP fosters open communication by sharing information freely.
We are organizing a major community outreach effort and we do need help.
CUSP schedules meetings, actions, and volunteer activities by email distribution list.
I'll add your email to the list.
Everyone else wishing to help
or even just stay current on CUSP's work
can get on that list
by copying the email address below into the To: line of a new email message.
Just put CUSP in the subject line
and your local contact information in the message area.
We'll add you to the list
and we won't pester you with frivolous pap
or share your email contact information.
For security purposes,
all announcements will arrive as blind carbon copies (bcc)
to protect you from unauthorized use of the list.
Posted by Duff a 38 year old from CUSP: Covinans United to Save our Parks on 03/23/05
duff.org
Responses: (0) Reply (to this)(main)
|
- Re: Save Civic Park
If you look at the Covina Municipal Code and look in the Zoning section
you might notice (or not notice) that there is no definition of a park.
If you look at the zoning maps for Covina, you will notice that
All of our parks are zoned residential with one exception.
Civic Park is zoned commercial.
I’m not sure when it changed or if we ever have had park zoning.
Things do take a while to unfurl.
City Council/CRA must follow the necessary steps to accomplish their ends.
This all takes time (hell bent like a large tortice).
There is a bit of a history surrounding this issue.
There was the 2002 Downtown Conceptual Master Plan.
Which also included moving the park. There was opposition
to it and they decided not to use the park at that time.
I’m not sure about a lot of the details.
(Can somebody fill in here?)
This summer the council approved the Town Center Specific Plan,
which includes a provision to move Civic Park.
Before they could get that ball rolling, they had to do a number of things.
They hired consultants, did studies and generally spent a lot of our money
to develop a few options, decide on one and create a draft plan.
By law, they then had to file an Environmental Impact Report and allow for pubic comment.
The only written comments submitted were in opposition (to the park issue and others)
We have no park zoning so we have no parks.
The way things stand now, CRA could sell civic park for whatever price they agree upon.
The subsequent owner/developer would then have to work out the details
with the planning commission and council as far as the park goes.
Why would they have to replace something we never had?
(hell-bent like a slow steamroller)
*
Posted by Spl a 47 year old from covina on 03/19/05
Responses: (0) Reply (to this)(main)
|
- Save Civic Park
Which Way, Covina?
Tuesday night, July 7, at 7:30 the Covina Redevelopment Agency (aka our elected City Council) will meet and agree to negotiate a proposal from Polis-Neimann Builders, who have offered to plop 125 new three-story condo-housing units above 20,000 square feet of new retail space, right downtown.
You may want to be there to hear and be heard.
As presented, the Polis-Neimann proposal would destroy the city’s Civic Park, raze three private homes, and displace and demolish most businesses on the block immediately south of the park. The conceptual drawings show a much smaller park occupying part of that business demolition block.
On a related note, Covina recently annexed Charter Oak Park from the county, so now it’s a city park too, and there are plans to build on that site as well….Coming soon, to a park near you.
The Polis-Niemann proposal replaces the city library reading room with a technology center, in the same potentially hazardous structure that houses the library today. The proposal also sacrifices most of the City Hall parking lot, yielding 10 residential units. That ought to improve attendance at Council Meetings.
Another not-new idea that Polis-Neimann proposes is to move the traditional diagonal parking on Citrus, over to Second Avenue instead, and park Citrus parallel downtown. Why does that sound familiar? Because it’s been tried before: 40 years ago in the mid ‘60’s when traffic was much lighter. It was not popular. People don’t like to parallel park and traffic stops up behind those who don’t do it well. Even as a one-way, northbound-only road, it was too tight. Downtown businesses suffered and protested and that’s why it’s diagonal now, again.
Why is all this happening?
Our Planning Commission and City Council voted late last year to approve the Town Center Specific Plan: to redevelop a 157-acre area of our downtown district, which today consists almost entirely of 50 to 120-year-old buildings.
There has still been no analysis provided on the expected return on this redevelopment investment. There are still no estimates on the required public infrastructure costs to support the eye-popping 800 new downtown homes proposed in the TCSP, so of course no impact mitigation fees can be calculated to assess upon these developments either.
For some perspective, the Monrovia Nursery/Rosedale project in Azusa is 1250 dwelling units on 520 acres of vacant land, complete with parks, a community recreation center, a new K-8 elementary school, a fire station, and acres of permanently preserved natural hillsides, all developer-paid-for.
Alexandria Deli, Sculpt Salon, Aquarius Nail Spa, and Corwin Vocal Studio were just thrown out on their ears by the recent condemnation at 100 N. Citrus. I am not aware of any coherent business relocation proposal in the TCSP. This may be due to the sad fact that very few downtown business or property owners attended the actual public hearings on the TCSP and none submitted formal comments. Fewer still studied the TCSP’s Final Environmental Impact Report (FEIR).
The Final EIR for the TCSP is available for study at the city library. These were only a few of the more serious concerns that citizens expressed. Despite a strangely foreshortened EIR process, concerned citizens submitted extensive formal comments and all were opposed to the TCSP. Still, our elected officials and their appointees voted to go forward with it and continue to claim that the TCSP complies with Covina’s General Plan. I strongly disagree, as would anyone who had actually read and compared the two documents.
Plunging forward though, Olsen Company’s Heritage Walk project is already approved under the non-General-Plan-compliant TCSP, complete with downzoning and height variances. Notwithstanding the lost potential for sales tax revenues, the project site at Third & Geneva is completely residential, on 4.4 prime commercially zoned acres just west of the new MetroLink parking structure. The project will consist of ninety units in twelve 3-story buildings, weighing in at about 21 homes per acre, near our current maximum zoning for residential density.
Civic Park and the historic downtown district are perhaps the most important social, cultural, & historic assets in Covina. The TCSP promised a full Historic Resource Study and Inventory. What’s needed is a thorough district-wide seismic analysis of all these downtown structures. Perhaps these studies will commence only after all historic resources have been removed?
On the day of the recent Supreme Court decision on eminent domain, Covina’s code-enforcement officers red-tagged 100 N. Citrus, forcing the eviction of four licensed rent-paying businesses. Did the Playhouse and the Champion family get rooked again? This building and 67 others downtown remain on the city’s Potentially Hazardous Structures list, based mostly on the unstudied assumption that they may contain unreinforced masonry, and may therefore be unsafe in a seismic event like an earthquake.
What can be done?
Downtown property owners and businesspeople may want to consider Covina’s voluntary Historic Preservation Act. Neighborhoods surrounding the TCSP area may want to pursue this option also. According to the county assessor’s records, 100 N. Citrus, built in 1880, is the oldest commercial building in Covina. How’s that for an historic resource?
Individually designated historic resources qualify for use of the State Historic Building Code, which would not trigger the code violations tied to the recent condemnation. That may prove useful to protect private and public property from the city’s new trifecta: the Potentially Hazardous Structures list, the red-tag-effect on fair market property values, and the new Eminent Domain law.
This could allow time to develop building-strengthening solutions while tenants are still in business and still paying rent. Designated Historic Landmarks and Structures of Merit receive a whopping 70% discount on building permit fees, welcome breaks for those who embark on seismic analysis and retrofit projects. Furthermore, income-producing properties designated as historic resources may be eligible for Federal Tax benefits and any designated historic resource may be eligible for a property tax-reducing Mills Act Contract.
Preservation provides substantial economic and social benefits to a community. That is where our redevelopment investments belong. Will this generation of elected officials, by neglect, permanently compromise old-town Covina’s potentially lucrative film & heritage tourism industry and prevent future generations from capitalizing on Covina’s rich history? These revenue streams were neither assessed nor compared. There are a few other good local examples; cities you all love to shop in.
The time is now to make a stand, if one is to ever be made at all, in support of preserving an economic future for Covina’s Historic Downtown.
Call or write your council members and come to Public Meetings to support a preservation-based economic rehabilitation plan.
Please help stop the TCSP before it stops you!
Posted by Duff a 38 year old from Covina on 07/04/05
duff.org
Responses: (0) Reply (to this)(main)
|
- Re: Save Civic Park
Right on, Duff!
One minor correction- City Council meets on Tuesday July 5, 2005
I hope that enough people know about this theft of public resource
that's tommorow! There is not much time left.
Posted by Spl a 47 year old from Govina on 07/04/05
Responses: (0) Reply (to this)(main)
|
- Re: Save Civic Park
Well,once again the misinformation is running rampant through the message boards. I respect passion and encourage debate and dialogue. I disdain misinformation and outright lies.
First off, nobody has ever considered building anything on Charter Oak Park, Covina Park or any other of our parks for that matter. In my time on council, nothing so ridiculous or absurd has every been discussed or brought up. The business owners at 100 North Citrus were not thrown out on their ears...the structural engineer for the Champions went into the building to start the design on retrofitting the building for earthquake standards and found the structure to be so dangerous that he sent a letter to the city as an engineer apprising the city of the severity of the issue. Let's make sure that the facts are out there and not just conjecture or discussions that are purely made up...
The Civic center "park" site continues to be owned by the City and was once envisioned as the site of the new city hall. The conceptual proposals that have come to the city propose to build a new park in downtown with facilities for residents including restrooms and water. The conceptual plans also include housing and commercial developments that will bring new families and individuals into our downtown with a vested interest in the environment of our historic and special downtown. People who want to live there and will care about shopping there, visiting our new civic park. The process is far from over and there are no decissions made yet on how anything will proceed.
The action being considered tonight by the city council is to enter into negotiations with one of the developers that submitted conceptual thoughts on the north downtown development to refine their ideas and see if the community and the developer can come to an agreement on what and how things should proceed there. The continued understanding that I am working under...as was my discussion during my campaign to be elected, is that a park must be in downtown and I am open to either retaining the current site or developing a new site if that makes more sense.
Please don't let misinformation be your guide on this issue. If you are interested in what is going on in the downtown area, please come to the city council meeting and hear what is truly going on and make your own determinations. Don't be led into a frenzy...
Posted by JCKing a 43 year old on 07/05/05
Responses: (0) (1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8) (9) (10) Reply (to this)(main)
|
- Re: Save Civic Park
At the point at which Covina City Council adopts ZONING for
ALL of our parks, I might be persuaded.
Posted by Spl a 47 year old from Covina on 07/10/05
Responses: (0) (1) Reply (to this)(main)
|
- Re: Save Civic Park
Several points in Covina Councilmember King’s July 5, 2005 posting left me scratching my head in wonderment.
He disturbs much land with a shallow plow and his comments merit further exploratory discussion.
Let's dig right in...
From the Councilman’s last post, regarding the Polis-Neimann proposal: building three stories over Civic Park, most of the block south of it, and the City Hall parking lot, yielding 125 units + 20,000 square feet of retail space.
• “The conceptual plans also include housing and commercial developments that will bring new families and individuals into our downtown with a vested interest in the environment of our historic and special downtown. People who want to live there and will care about shopping there, visiting our new civic park.”
This is pure speculation.
How long will elected officials continue to repress and ignore the vested interests and needs of the existing people and businesses who, because they want to, already live in and around historic downtown? Have they re-defined the word vested?
• “The Civic center "park" site continues to be owned by the City”
This statement is simply false. The Civic Park site is owned by the Redevelopment Agency.
TAKE YOUR FINGERS OUT OF YOUR EARS AND LIFT ONE INTO THE WIND, COUNCILMAN!
• The TCS Plan Is Going To Put A LOT Of People Out of Business. You read it here, but I’m not nearly the first to recognize it. Covina’s economy is unlikely to survive several years of downtown construction chaos. Without any development impact fees in place, and given a deficit budget plan that is gulping reserves, deferring infrastructure investments, and bleeding legal fees and pension costs; what is supposed to be so attractive to progressive new businesses, about a complete upheaval of both the existing businesses and the customer base surrounding them? What’s to keep the wind of this council’s willy-nilly knee-jerk will from turning on and uprooting these new residents & businesses too?
• Are council members really looking forward joyously to a decade of downtown demolitions, forging what will become deeply held resentments at what has been lost?
• People who have lived and done business here for DECADES are throwing up their hands and getting the HELL out of Covina before the other shoe drops, which many see only now as inevitable, after years and years of effort and investment.
• Many of these folks know and care considerably more than this council seems to about our historic downtown. We all already care very deeply about shopping and visiting there. What we really want is a nice grocery store and some clothing shops. There’s plenty of room to fit those in without squandering Civic Park.
• There’s plenty of room in barely mature Civic Park for drinking fountains. We’ve just upgraded the restroom facilities in the Safety Services building to make them ADA compliant. They’ll be even more useful when the Safety Services get their new modern fully ADA compliant building elsewhere and that facility is converted to a robust community center for Civic Park.
• That’s what new residents of the area will want too. Could’ja please put down the Tonka Trucks and play with some nice quiet books instead?
Read the General Plan.
Read the TCS Plan and its Final Environmental Impact Report.
These documents are subject to a legislated order of precedence.
Specific Plans are supposed to implement a General Plan, not force amendments to it. Specific Plans must be compliant with the General Plan they purport to implement. Specific Plans are not supposed to force General Plans into making room for them by sheer dint of their existence.
Of course, a General Plan can be amended; however, a Specific Plan may not be approved until it actually does comply with the amended General Plan.
This means that if a proposed Specific Plan will require General Plan Amendments to achieve General Plan compliance, those proposed General Plan Amendments must proceed through the required public notices, full disclosures, public hearings, comments, and findings processes BEFORE passage of the Specific Plan.
With a thus-amended-and-approved General Plan, it is possible then, and only then for a Planning Commission and a City Council to truthfully determine and state that a Specific Plan is compliant.
The process was begun backwards and is still incomplete, hence the loud rumbling that the Specific Plan is an illegal document. I happen to agree with that. The Town Center Specific Plan does not comply.
By the way, most regular folks around here do have TV and cable. They can see and hear clearly what is truly going on at council meetings, and they’re not diggin’ it. Most people have no interest in going out after dark to late council meetings, particularly when items of deepest concern are invariably scheduled at the sleepy end of a late night agenda.
More disturbing still is that when people do gather to participate, odds are that the item(s) of concern will be quickly and quietly postponed, requiring far-too-tedious poring over euphemistically coded agendas and public records for hints at some discussion of the contentious item(s), leading up to visit after irksome, dull visit, only to be ignored and discredited for their participation,
A demonstrative example is Councilman King’s invitation in his last paragraph, that
“If you are interested in what is going on in the downtown area, please come to the city council meeting and hear what is truly going on and make your own determinations.”
We Came. The agenda item for the Polis Neimann Project, which many people came to speak on this past Tuesday, was continued to the next Council Meeting, upon Council’s realization that the skillet would be hot.
This does not demonstrate “encouraging debate and dialogue.” It is evasive, disrespectful pigswill; unbecoming to a city so steeped in patriotic tradition, so small that the stink carries citywide. People don’t like it when their sincerest concerns are smugly disregarded.
We watch council meetings on cable, many of us avidly. In between elections, we vote with our wallets. Disregard us at your own political peril. We own computers and we know how to use them. We communicate freely and will continue to do so as the circle widens. We share public records widely, we treat each other with respect, and we compare information openly to develop better ideas. Get it?
We are paying those five people to manage an open and participative local democracy.
They all swore to uphold the State and Federal Constitutions. They’re obligated to use our tax money to enforce the Municipal Code and implement the General Plan.
Councilman King, have you read these documents? Are you ready to uphold them or no?
On to some other tidbits:
“I respect passion and encourage debate and dialogue.”
“I disdain misinformation and outright lies”
Respect, Encourage, & Disdain? A recent wierd example was Council’s recent contention that bingo begets profit skimming, on the day after the Fourth of July, while the noble American Legion Post members patiently sat in the audience awaiting their bingo license entitlement.
Were the verbs inadvertently shuffled in the quotes above?
If no, I wonder if the Councilman would please elaborate on exactly which flavor of respect and encouragement he means to convey by using phrases like “misinformation”, “outright lies”, “conjecture”, “discussions that are purely made up”, and “don't be led into a frenzy”, to respond to his constituents’ comments on this website?
Are there any specific, provable examples, such as information provided or actions taken, that fit those descriptions? We are all reasonable people. Convince us effectively that we’re all wrong. Are there any reliably vindicatory source documents that will shed some light on those ambiguously pejorative remarks?
By now people know that I try to constantly update to the best evidence available, so bring what you’ve got out into the light ‘eh?. If I’m wrong, and its proven to me that I’m wrong, I’ll gladly cop to it and move on to a higher discussion armed with the new facts.
Either way, I’d appreciate the Councilman doing me the honor of explaining away the following incongruities in his latest post.
• “…nobody has ever considered building anything on Charter Oak Park,”
Respectfully, Mr King, please check your facts.
• “…or any other of our parks for that matter.”
Incredulously, Mr King, I reiterate, please check your facts, your archive of closed session agenda items, and the content of your own posted statement:
• “I am open to either retaining the current site or developing a new site if that makes more sense.”
Residential & commercial development are planned for our Civic Park. Do you seriously still deny this today? If you do, you are providing yet another absurd example of the disturbingly dysfunctional municipal policy of new-speak and disinformation which has led Covina to this point, where a fast growing body of citizens are suddenly becoming aware at the eleventh hour, of the plan to sell Civic Park to private developers. Read the zoning maps and note how precariously ALL the rest of our parks are zoned.
• “In my time on council, nothing so ridiculous or absurd has every been discussed or brought up.”
Oh for pity’s sake. NOTHING? I can think of several things without even straining, starting with that very statement, which, to my great amusement, internally trumps itself; taking prizes for both absurdity and ridiculousness.
Regarding your time on council, has it been more extensive than I recollect?
For clarity, can anyone please refresh readers’ memories on the duration of time that Mr. King has actually held this office, beyond the 4 months he has been in office this term? In particular, what were the starting and finishing dates of that first term and the details surrounding its beginning and end?
• Whether the owners of the four businesses who leased at 100 N. Citrus were, as phrased, "…thrown out on their ears."
Ask that question of any one of them.
One young entrepreneur, forced to vacate, spoke at last Tuesday night's council meeting. I can understand how, during this man’s turn at the lectern, one might have been transfixed by the Mayor & City Manager's ill-timed smirking at some whispered private joke. As a member of the audience and a dual business license holder in Covina, I was frankly appalled by that moment and deeply embarrassed for my city. Perhaps Mr King too was distracted?
• The structural inspection of 100-104 N. Citrus
Covina’s Potentially Hazardous Structures List clearly identified this building, at least as early as 1989. Furthermore, the 2000 Technical Study for the Safety Element of the General Plan specifically identifies it as such.
I don’t recall the precise dates offhand, but it’s been quite a saga since the city-approved building permits were issued for the RENOVATION of Covina Playhouse (into the Covina Performing Arts Center), gosh, more than 4 years ago now, hasn’t it been? Wasn’t Palmeri on Council when that project last came formally to a public meeting agenda?
Wasn’t there an interim major change, too, after construction started, involving a decision that required nearly complete DEMOLITION and RECONSTRUCTION as the reluctant Plan B, based on a mid-renovation structural discovery that rendered the permitted renovation unworkable for the Playhouse portion of the Reed Building?
It’s obviously been a substantially larger investment for the property owner than was originally planned. Maybe Councilman King can explain away some pesky questions about all this, so that the situation makes sense for readers.
Given the obvious and oft-cited AGE of the Reed Building at 100-104 North Citrus and given the clear and well-documented potential for seismic-related structural issues throughout downtown:
Help us make sense of the following apparent anomalies.
• Why only NOW is a structural report emerging on the southern portion of THE VERY SAME HISTORIC BUILDING that is under construction?
• Why did it not make sense to require a comprehensive evaluation of the structural integrity of the entire structure proposed for renovation, BEFORE building permits were issued for the Covina Center for the Performing Arts?
• Why would it not also have been prudent, pre-construction, to require comprehensive investigation and evaluation into the structural integrity of the physically connected Allison and Griffith Buildings to the North?
• Why didn’t the interim project changes trigger either level of additional review?
• In an area and on a site that has been defined in countless official documents as historic, why was there not, and why has there still not been a comprehensive EIR created for this project?
• And finally, when do you suppose might be the right time to conduct the downtown historic resource and tree resource surveys? When all these proposed projects are complete, perhaps?
Posted by Duff a 38 year old from Covina on 07/10/05
www.electduff.org
Responses: (0) (1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) Reply (to this)(main)
|
|
Covina.com is brought to you by the Covina Downtown Assoc.
Shop Covina First - Website Created & Hosted by
| | Copyright © 1997, 2008 WebWorks2.com & Covina Downtown Assoc. |
|
|
